Slowly having a breakdown.....A travel blog and diary of life in Moscow Russia and the daily routine of being a 'SAHD' stay at home dad and other such things. Join me on a tongue-in-cheek fun journey into another universe. Published now & then.
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Warning this blog may contain scenes of nappies and occasional bad language. Copyright 2011. Price: Free, donations welcome.
December 13, 2010
Bureaucratic hoops
He has had a bad cough for over three weeks now. Each time we go there, we are given drops and syrups that have no effect. I went straight to the office at the medical centre where they provided me with a translator. On this visit, I took with me all the useless bottles, drops and potions they had given me before, to ensure that I would not be given the same useless bottles and drops on this visit. I made my way up to the doctors office with my heavy carrier bag full of clanking bottles in one hand and my wriggling wheezing kid in the other. I put all the useless bottles on the doctors desk and the doctor listened to my kids chest and suggested I buy a nebulizer and some inhaling liquids. The translator communicated with the doctor, the doctor communicated with the translator and it went back and forth lost in a dance of translation. The translator was unsmiling and unsympathetic. We left the doctors room with yet more prescriptions and headed downstairs to the phramacy.
At the pharmacy, in the medical centre, they put the nebulizer machine in a carrier bag along with the liquids and asked me for 4,000 rubles. I gave them my Visa card and the pharmacy assistant put it in the card machine, I entered my pin code, nothing it was rejected. I then tried again, rejected. I then tried my Master card and the same thing happened, people were waiting in line and getting angry and the pharmacy was filling up with people. I had cash in my pocket but was saving it for food shopping, it was the only cash I had until my wife would get back from her business trip, food or medicine? In desperation, I told the translator that they could keep my passport and that I would come back with another card the next day when my wife would be back in Russia. She took us to see the pharmacy manager. In her office, the translator told her my request, the pharmacy manager looked up at us from behind her desk and with cold eyes and a stony heart she said the single Russian word that I hate 'Niet' No. So I painfully counted out the last of my Russian cash and left the pharmacy feeling angry and wound up. Cow, may your nipples fall off and may you burn in hell.
I then had to get all my medical insurance forms filled out, signed and stamped, my form had to be signed by the doctor and the same form had to be stamped (in two places, in different boxes on the form) at one admin window and I had to pay for the doctor consult at another window, (strangely at this window my card was accepted). Jesus wept. After all this bureaucracy, I felt ill and needed a doctor. Luckily, I had a spare form!
We have to jump through these hoops whenever we visit the doctor here, its a long story. This is stressful at the best of times but when you have a small toddler running around the medical centre terrorizing the staff, its even more stressful. When you don't speak the language and have a sick kid and have no money, its highly stressful. Note to self, learn Russian or leave Russia. In fact, just getting your insurance forms filled out and stamped may cause you to have a heart attack or high blood pressure and you will have to fill out more forms.
I think Russians can be cold, if you don't speak the language. If you are foreign, they assume that you have insurance and that everything is paid for. Some foreigners here have that luxury and their insurance pays the medical centre directly cutting out the need for the claim form song and dance. Unfortunately, I don't have such a system and can't have such a system. Don't ask why.
I refuse to use a well known medical center here, named after a famous European currency last word 'medical', because they charge 150 euro just to see the doctor, excluding any medical tests. They have got rich on foreign insurance and I often see the doctors parking their 911's in the street when I walk past with my kid each day. However, I may be forced to swallow my entrenched principals and go there if my kid is not better soon, however we will still have these bureaucratic hoops to jump through in order to get paid back.
The story does not end there. In order to get paid back any medical costs in Russia, we have to send one copy of the claim form, including a copy of prescriptions and receipts to one office and another scanned copy of everything has to be sent off to another office. We wait about three to four weeks, then we may be paid back some or all of the costs. This is all true I swear on my aunts Fannies life dear reader.
Note to nebulizer virgins: Try holding a face mask on an under two, while he/she wriggles and screams. Tip, strap kid into stroller and put kid in stroller in front of the TV while you use the face mask. All part of life's learning process dear reader.
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29 comments:
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Take the advice of a former expat in Moscow: unless your personal contacts recommend particular Russian doctors to you and these doctos know in advance you are coming (and you will have to pay them extra anyway), forget the poliklinika and go to the EMC.
ReplyDeleteOMG! I am so sorry. I have to run right now and can't type for a long time but... man... It must get better from now on... just believe in it.
ReplyDeleteD.
It was not a poliklinika but a private clinic. I can't name it on the www.
ReplyDeleteThere is no need to go to clinic every time your kid gets sick. Call the doctor from local poliklinika and get acquainted with her. Pay her something like 1000-1500 per visit (I can't tell if it's more or less against what clinic charges). No paperwork, no rejected credit cards, the doctor is happy, your kid gets medical care at home. Another benefit of having family doctor is she will know your kid real well and will be providing better care of him. You might need help from someone speaking English and Russian to do this.
ReplyDeleteIt is very hard to find a good doctor in Russia, one who is going to care and actually knows what he/she is doing. Besides the fact that Russia is quite behind in medical field most of the doctors just there for money. They don't care about you (well most of them) they care how much money you are willing to spend on your treatments. They don't look at you they look in your wallet. So sad, make me appreciate more and more what I have here and complain sometimes. Doctors will come up with numerous unnecesseary procedures just to milk you more. They will find smthg you don't have and will be eager to treat it for extra$$.
ReplyDeleteI was wondering if you watched Michael Moore "Sicko" movie? Is it completely true what he showed there about your's guys health insurance, hospitals and life styles? Just curious!
Did nebulizer help? Is mama back? Are you sturving? Should we start sending friends to your doors with food and money? No, seriously, are you guys ok? Do you have any friends there who can help you out?
Will pray for you tonight.
D.
Anonymous Thanks for the suggestion but then we would not get paid back anything. Moscow is expensive enough without paying for a Dr. I see your point it would be nice to get to know a good Dr who is good at the job. Most of them are over 50 at the clinic which is not a poliklinika.
ReplyDeleteD we are OK. Of course we dont need food at our door. My point was the situation at the time not now. It was an experience to share. My kid is coughing less. You have a child you know how stressful it is when they are ill. Try taking your child to a Dr in a foreign country. Its not easy but I managed thanks.
ReplyDeleteHey, didn't mean to offend you, just imagined myself being in your shoes, sorry if I did. Glad, that you are guys doing better
ReplyDeleteD.
You dont offend me. Do you get back to Russia much?
ReplyDeleteNope I don't maybe once in 2 years or so And then when I do I am tourist now :) just speak language and I never win in the store lines ... I don't yell and shout :)
ReplyDeleteD.
BTW are you in Russia now?? as the last visitor to the blog by IP code was recorded as Moscow city !!!!
ReplyDeleteWhen I go back to the UK I feel a foreigner there.
Nope I am in Washington state . Strange, If I would be in Russia or Moscow for that instance I would love to help you out and make you feel a little bit more comfortable in that huge cold city:) I don't tend to fight much for myself but heck I will kill for friends :)
ReplyDeleteD.
So you are Russian living in WS in the US. What time is there now? What made you leave Russia and have you been away long?
ReplyDeleteThanks for a great blog, very interesting to read.
ReplyDeleteAs a cynic, I would say don't waste your time and money on the crap they give you in the polyclinics here, especially the breathing apparatus. The vast majority of doctors are scamming you, and your credit card doesn't work in the pharmacy because they want undeclared cash income, as opposed to taxable, declared income.
One of my children has gone through all of the witch doctor remedies that get recommended here, and fresh air is the only thing that works.
Moscow is a pretty dirty and polluted city, and your child's cough, I am guessing, is partially caused by the dirt and smog in the air.
Anyway, I presume you are away for the holidays, so Merry Christmas.
Hi Exprumos not away yet but soon will be in Egypt in the sun and sand... thank god.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you. I am sure they get some payment for prescribing junk loads of drops and syrups that all seem to be totally useless.
Merry Xmas & NY :-)
Hi & let me ask why did you choose EMC? It is the most expensive clinic in Moscow. You may try the other one and with local doctors. Believe, there are some good native doctors in the city. If you speak Russian a little, then I think you are able to find them. Note, that their professionality and attitude towards you do not depend on what clinic they work for. The best way is to find a native doctor not belonging to a particular clinic. Good luck. Victor. (e-mail inarovich@mail.ru)
ReplyDeleteHi Victor that's my point, I have never been and I will never go to the damn EMC they are crooks and printing money. They charge 150 euro just for a consultation. I will never go there.
ReplyDeleteI go to an Updk clinic.
Dear English man in Moscow!
ReplyDeleteI'm afraid you were thinking of this medical center to go with your child - http://en.medicina.ru/ If yes, be very (!) careful with them! My husband and I are Russians, came from a different city to live here in Moscow and also had lots of troubles with medicine and doctors (even being natives). But during the last 3,5 years we found some (well, really few) doctors, who are very good. I'm not saying Moscow doctors are all bad, but most of them are really here for money. It's not like this in hole Russia, believe me. We don't have the newest technical supply, maybe most of doctors are from a Soviet Union medical school, but still are good and helping.
I wanted to warn you about several centers you could go in a hurry or despair and that could bring you even more damage. Be prepared to find 80% of bad doctors in a clinic called Medicina http://en.medicina.ru/, but almost normal (comparing to Europe) equipment. They will take tones of money and will provide you with the same pills and syrops, as your previous doctor. But there are a good things if you have their insurance, for example physiotherapy. I know you, English people are not very familiar with such a stuff, but it is really helpful if done right. You know some Soviet inventions works ;) The same thing with nebulizer machine, it's also traditional way to treat here (especially children) and IS working (I know you have many doubts, but I'm again asking you to believe me). You only need to have the right prescription for herbals, liquids and the right regime and time using it. The third thing some Russian doctors use sometimes and knows well is a herbal therapy. We had no good pharmacy factories here, during the Soviet period and many people used to treat themselves with medical plants. It is a very powerful way to get better, but pray you have a good doctor to prescribe it. It's 10 times cheaper to use herbals here in Russia, then to use almost useless ready syrups. As you are a foreigner they will definitely try to treat you, your son and wife with ready stuff made on pharmacy fabric. But try to ask them for non-antibiotic and herbal way... Maybe you'll find it good for some occasions.
The second clinic is a definitely 'never to go' - this one http://www.medhelp-clinic.ru/ Never. Never. Never. Even if you are dying.
Well, I'm sorry for being so verbose, just wish you the best in this agressive city. If you would need help you are very welcome. We've got plenty of useful notes, people and also doctors here. My husband and I both speaks English and feel not very comfortable here sometimes (oh, not sometimes... sometimes we do not feel uncomfortable ;) Information is a treasure here, in Moscow... And I'm happy to share :)
I have no account here, but do use Facebook(http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=847214939) and Flickr(http://www.flickr.com/photos/kirikdesign/), e-,ail is written somewhere there.
P.S.: I've seen you could not find blue-tack. There is no actually blue-tack here, but sometimes you can find a Faber-Castell product, called Tack-It, that works almost as a blue-tack. Manufacturer calls it removable adhesive for memos&posters, kid's hobby-craft. http://www.faber-castell.in/35252/Products/PlayingLearning/Tack-It/default_news.aspx It comes in different colours and in bluish grey. Last time I saw it in a Moscow book house (New Arbat), department downstairs in the middle of the store.
Good luck!
Masha
Hi masha
ReplyDeleteNo I dont go to http://en.medicina.ru/. We go to a totally private Russian med centre, its OK and cheaper then the EMC which is a place of criminals.
In an emergency we went to a Russian hospital BIG mistake it was a public one and my kid got worse after going there I had to collect him and my wife as she called my in tears to be freed from it.
I look for blue blu tax thanks. I hope you are OK in Moscow and like it here?
I've been in hospital twice since I began to live in Russia 16 years ago. The first time was only a month after my having settled here in 1995: I was living in the former Kaliningrad, now Korolev, and went down with diphtheria. I was rushed off to an isolation ward in the local hospital. The second time was after having broken my left collar bone whilst riding too fast on my son's bike. I was living at my dacha at the time, which is situated some 57 miles west of Moscow. As a result of my foolhardiness, I was in hospital for a week in Ruza, a small country town near Mozhaisk. I am still alive and well and have no complaints whatsoever to make as regards the treatment that I received off the doctors and nurses in those hospitals that I found myself. Furthermore, I did not have to pay for my treatment, which fact I remember surprising a young doctor at the first hospital, but the senior doctor that treated me there was not surprised at all, as both he and and I knew of something that few, it seems, realise: namely that for British citizens emergency medical treatment in Russia is (or perhaps one should now say "was") free; likewise for Russian visitors to the UK that have been unfortunate enough to need emergency treatment. I think this agreement came about towards the end of WWII when the British National Health Service was first set up and the USSR and the UK were still (officially, at least) "allies" in the struggle against Fascism in Europe. Be that as it may, I did not have to pay for anything on the two occasions that I had to stay in hospital, and it was only as recently as 2007 when I was patched up in Ruza. Furthermore, all three of my children were delivered in Russian state hospitals: my first two offspring were born in Hospital No.1 at Oktyabrskaya and my youngest was born at Hospital No.29 at Lefortovsky. Russian acquaintances, having learnt that all my children were born in state hospitals here, invariably voice their amazement that my wife did not go to the UK in order to have our children delivered. That option was something that not once entered either my or my wife's head. All of my children are healthy and have apparently suffered no ill effects after having drawn their first breath in a Russian state hospital. If I were ever to fall ill or have an accident again, I would not seek out a private clinic for treatment. I should add, however,that I am also entitled to state medical treatment in Russia as I have a permanent Moscow residence permit as a foreign citizen, which entitles me to all Russian citizen rights apart from the fact that I am not allowed to cast a vote in political elections.
ReplyDeleteHaving a Russian wife may have helped in your hospital experiences here. My wife speaks Russian and was seen as a foreigner here when she tried to get help she was not treated well and just given a bed with a mattress like paper with springs poking through, there was no curtain and the floor had old lino with holes in it. The hospital she went to was awful (perhaps like one you find in Nigeria) and they did not have any plasters or bandages.
ReplyDeleteCould temporary expats as 'foreigners' walk or be wheeled into, a state hospital here and get FREE treatment? Would they be cared for well, fed and sent home to recover? If hospitals are anything like they were in Slovakia, I would be highly surprised if this were possible and if it was an acceptable experience.
Did you wife have a private room when she had her babies? Did she have toilet paper, medicine and food and access to a shower and TV etc?
Please elaborate further and give the full picture.
I was unmarried when I contracted diphtheria and at the time knew nobody in Russia. I had only been living in Kaliningrad for three weeks when I fell ill. My wife was not with me when I came off my bike in 2007: the accident happened a few miles from my dacha. My wife was not with me to hold my hand, do the talking and to shell out money to Russian medics on those occasions when I had to receive emergency treatment. I was taken by ambulance to hospital in both cases and I did the talking. The Russian doctors and nurses knew in both cases that I was a foreigner. I received the same treatment that I expect a Russian citizen might have received. I was not asked to pay anything.I should add, however, that Russians always think that I am from one of the Baltic states whenever I speak Russian: they never ever think I am English.
ReplyDeleteSo you speak good Russian and you are a man! that answers some questions. You did not say the quality of stay in care for your wife or for you. Was it good? basic? or poor?
ReplyDeleteI still believe the hospital state system is very bad and worse than our one in the UK. I think you have been very lucky. Are you saying no money changed hands at all for your treatments or for your wife's baby deliveries? Be honest.
My wife had our first two children in Moscow hospital No.1: she was in a ward there with many other women. As is the usual case, husbands are not allowed to enter a state maternity hospital: once the expectant mother passes through the security system, it's goodbye until man and wife meet again on the new mother's discharge together with the new baby. Of course, I brought things that my wife constantly requested, and these were inspected at security and passed on to my wife. We used to talk by mobile 'phone whilst gazing at each other from far away. When I was put into isolation in Kaliningrad, a nurse asked me when my wife intended to visit me. Having learnt that I was single, she asked when my friends would make a visit. On learning that I had at that time neither friends nor acquaintances in Russia, she simply replied: "You'll be hungry." But I wasn't. Firstly, I was in no fit state to eat anything: I was stretched out naked on a bed in a "box" (an isolation cubicle), and had a drip permanently attached to me. They just pumped me full of antibiotics or whatever. When I started to get better and my appetite was just beginning to return, I discharged myself: I had to get back to work. The doctors there, who really took care of me, advised me to stay in hospital one more week, but I refused. When my wife was having our babies, on her request I used to bring her broth and assorted toiletries. Our third child was born in 2007 at Moscow hospital No.29, which is a new one. There my wife was not in a ward but in a room for two patients. However, as it happened, my wife was the only occupant. And it was the same routine: she was admitted and we didn't meet again until I went to collect her and our new baby. I brought her the usual things on request, including our video camera in order that she shoot a film and take pictures of our new baby, and from the hospital inner-courtyard I spoke by mobile to her as she stood at the 9th floor window of her room. As regards "gifts" for the doctors: on both occasions I presented them with the usual boxes of chocolates and flowers. My "fee" to the obstetrician on the occasion of each of my children's birth was, if I remember correctly, $200 in an envelope tucked into the roses. I should rate the quality of my stay in the Kaliningrad isolation ward as "basic", that of my wife in hospital No.1 as "poor to fair", and that of her stay in hospital No.29 as "fair to middling". And I must stress: I didn't die of diphtheria in Kaliningrad and on the three occasions that my wife gave birth, she was delivered of fine, healthy children. Why have you requested that I be honest in giving my answers? Do you suspect that I am a "Kremlin Stooge"?
ReplyDelete:-)
"A Reciprocal Health Care Agreement operates between the UK and Russia. This entitles British nationals to free treatment in a Russian hospital. However, any treatment you receive is likely to be limited."
ReplyDeleteSee:
http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/travel-and-living-abroad/travel-advice-by-country/europe/russian-federation
As regards access to TV in Russian hospitals, when I was in the Ruza hospital awaiting orthopaedic surgery, I was near driven to distraction by bloody Russian TV! I was in a large room with three other patients. All of them had suffered fractures at work. One poor lad had broken his back after having fallen of a barn roof. My wife only visited me once. She came from the dacha in a taxi with my two eldest, who in August 2007, when the accident happened, were 8 and 6 years old, and our new baby, who was 4-months old. She brought some food, but it wasn't necessary. I told her not to visit me again, and she answered that she had no intention of doing so as she had too much on her hands at the dacha with our three children. I had informed her of my accident by mobile from the hospital in Ruza after I had been admitted there. A passer-by had called an ambulance to the scene of my accident, where I had briefly lain concussed. When I came to, a babushka had to get in her two-penn'orth, as indeed they always do, in that she began to admonish me for riding a bike at my age (I was 58 then) and too fast at that. Funnily enough, I got so annoyed at her bloody nagging, that I momentarily forgot about the predicament that I found myself in.
ReplyDeleteWhy have you requested that I be honest in giving my answers? Do you suspect that I am a "Kremlin Stooge"? ......Hmm not sure about that but you did buy the the 'ILR' t-shirt and seemed to have had only good experiences or least good ones regarding my posts. You have been lucky as far as your replies to my posts on the topics I have mentioned.
ReplyDeleteBTW: My son was born in Slovakia and my experience was like yours in almost every way, although my wife shared a private room with another women that we paid for up front in an 'envelope' kind of way. We had to bring our own toilet paper to the hospital and food was uneatable.
I still stick to what I say, I would not want to go to a public hospital here but we could not afford a private one even though we have insurance. I am sure if I had an accident I would be saved and treated here but it would be basic.
I think you speak fluent Russian and this is why you came to Russian all those years ago.
I dont think we can add more to this topic and thanks for your experiences
I didn't speak Russian fluently when I came here. Twenty-five years ago I worked down the pit I England.
ReplyDeleteHow did you end up moving to and living in Russia of all places???? I dont understand at all !?
ReplyDelete